Comments on: Church, Baptism, Missions, and My Covenants http://www.thechurchblog.org/live/2005/10/04/church-baptism-missions-and-my-covenants/ Real people talking about The Church Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:19:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Fred http://www.thechurchblog.org/live/2005/10/04/church-baptism-missions-and-my-covenants/comment-page-1/#comment-22 Fred Fri, 12 May 2006 20:01:40 +0000 http://www.thechurchblog.org/live/?p=32#comment-22 Baptism certainly is not too much to expect, but neither should we expect a new believer ourto understand the significance of baptism if they have never been an environment where they can experience the growth you speak of. Most folks come to new churches from other churches, but I wouldn't say they often come from an environment that encouraged growth. For them, baptism is indeed a stumbling block -- a legalistic requirement that they (most often) choose to do without. I don't think any of the previous posters are saying that baptism is unncessary or even something to be diminished; just that the full meaning and significance of baptism needs to be taught and learned before it can be a true "outward expression of an inward faith." It has therefore been suggested that one way to do that is to not shun people from church membership just because they are not ready to accept the mode of baptism that is required -- but to bring them to that point on their own through the fellowship of a nurturing body of believers. AND to structure the church leadership so that discipleship is an intentional, purposeful, and unavoidable part of being a "member." Baptism certainly is not too much to expect, but neither should we expect a new believer ourto understand the significance of baptism if they have never been an environment where they can experience the growth you speak of. Most folks come to new churches from other churches, but I wouldn’t say they often come from an environment that encouraged growth. For them, baptism is indeed a stumbling block — a legalistic requirement that they (most often) choose to do without. I don’t think any of the previous posters are saying that baptism is unncessary or even something to be diminished; just that the full meaning and significance of baptism needs to be taught and learned before it can be a true “outward expression of an inward faith.” It has therefore been suggested that one way to do that is to not shun people from church membership just because they are not ready to accept the mode of baptism that is required — but to bring them to that point on their own through the fellowship of a nurturing body of believers. AND to structure the church leadership so that discipleship is an intentional, purposeful, and unavoidable part of being a “member.”

]]> By: MJ http://www.thechurchblog.org/live/2005/10/04/church-baptism-missions-and-my-covenants/comment-page-1/#comment-21 MJ Fri, 12 May 2006 15:03:27 +0000 http://www.thechurchblog.org/live/?p=32#comment-21 Fred, I agree with everything in your first paragraph. And, I certainly don't believe that baptism is THE issue. If someone is living an openly sinful lifestyle that they are unwilling to give up, then they are not making a true commitment to Christ and therefore the church would not want to sanction that by accepting them into membership. The church is the place God designed for people grow into mature believer's living a life of love and obedience to Christ. The requirements for church membership have become few and far between. It is more difficult to get a library card than to join most churches. Biblical baptism is certainly not too much to expect. Fred,

I agree with everything in your first paragraph. And, I certainly don’t believe that baptism is THE issue. If someone is living an openly sinful lifestyle that they are unwilling to give up, then they are not making a true commitment to Christ and therefore the church would not want to sanction that by accepting them into membership.

The church is the place God designed for people grow into mature believer’s living a life of love and obedience to Christ. The requirements for church membership have become few and far between. It is more difficult to get a library card than to join most churches. Biblical baptism is certainly not too much to expect.

]]> By: Fred http://www.thechurchblog.org/live/2005/10/04/church-baptism-missions-and-my-covenants/comment-page-1/#comment-20 Fred Thu, 11 May 2006 20:02:24 +0000 http://www.thechurchblog.org/live/?p=32#comment-20 It's been a while since I've read this post -- but I think the intent was to show that we are united with Christ at the moment of salvation, and as such members of His family from that point on. Baptism follows out of obedience to His example and our love and desire to follow Him as He leads. It is a discipleship issue, nothing more. If a believer understands what baptism is about, there will be no questioning of their desire to become baptized. However, when we require it as a pre-requisite for acceptance into a church family, that's where we need to be careful. We as leaders sometimes want to make baptism THE issue when it comes to accepting new members into our churches, when perhaps there are more pressing spiritual maturity matters that need to be dealt with first. I'd rather see somebody accepted into a church body because they are a mature believer, full of love for our Lord and for each other -- and full of grace. If this is true of them, then baptism won't be an issue. It’s been a while since I’ve read this post — but I think the intent was to show that we are united with Christ at the moment of salvation, and as such members of His family from that point on. Baptism follows out of obedience to His example and our love and desire to follow Him as He leads.

It is a discipleship issue, nothing more. If a believer understands what baptism is about, there will be no questioning of their desire to become baptized. However, when we require it as a pre-requisite for acceptance into a church family, that’s where we need to be careful. We as leaders sometimes want to make baptism THE issue when it comes to accepting new members into our churches, when perhaps there are more pressing spiritual maturity matters that need to be dealt with first.

I’d rather see somebody accepted into a church body because they are a mature believer, full of love for our Lord and for each other — and full of grace. If this is true of them, then baptism won’t be an issue.

]]> By: MJ http://www.thechurchblog.org/live/2005/10/04/church-baptism-missions-and-my-covenants/comment-page-1/#comment-19 MJ Thu, 11 May 2006 19:22:20 +0000 http://www.thechurchblog.org/live/?p=32#comment-19 Baptism is a picture of joining with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. You don't bury someone by throwing a handful of dirt on them. It was important enough that Jesus did it and is the first act of obedience of a believer. When you call Him, "Lord," you must do what He says. It is far beyond a "gesture." The question of whether any individual church will accept the baptism by immersion by another church is, of course, up to that church. Baptism is a picture of joining with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. You don’t bury someone by throwing a handful of dirt on them. It was important enough that Jesus did it and is the first act of obedience of a believer. When you call Him, “Lord,” you must do what He says. It is far beyond a “gesture.”

The question of whether any individual church will accept the baptism by immersion by another church is, of course, up to that church.

]]> By: robbie http://www.thechurchblog.org/live/2005/10/04/church-baptism-missions-and-my-covenants/comment-page-1/#comment-10 robbie Sat, 29 Oct 2005 06:57:47 +0000 http://www.thechurchblog.org/live/?p=32#comment-10 Yeah, it took me forever to get over here, but I made it. Thank you, so much for checkin' out my blog. And yes, I am going to get baptized at mpcc someday (hopefully soon). To be honest, baptism was a block at first. But I feel that mpcc is the best place in L.C. for me to be a part of a missionary sending(in the world, and community), disciple focused community of faith that serves one another. I can look past stuff to love people better. How good would a generous orthodoxy be if I didn't join this body because it has a less than generous orthodxy. We would both be legalists. Yeah, it took me forever to get over here, but I made it. Thank you, so much for checkin’ out my blog. And yes, I am going to get baptized at mpcc someday (hopefully soon). To be honest, baptism was a block at first. But I feel that mpcc is the best place in L.C. for me to be a part of a missionary sending(in the world, and community), disciple focused community of faith that serves one another. I can look past stuff to love people better. How good would a generous orthodoxy be if I didn’t join this body because it has a less than generous orthodxy. We would both be legalists.

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